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  How to play 40k
Posted by: wolfie - 05-24-2011, 08:57 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - No Replies

I saw this and i thought this would be usefule for newer people to the game. They show you the basics

Intro
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/an-...hammer-40k

Episode 2 part 1
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/int...hammer-40k

Episode 2 part 2
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/int...40k-part-2

Episode 3
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/int...erminators

Episode 4
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/int...s-ork-boyz

Episode 5
http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/int...landraider

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  King of the Hill
Posted by: - 05-24-2011, 01:16 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (3)

Hello all,

I hear there is some demand for this.

The Rules:

750pts: 1 HQ and 2 Troops ONLY

Players: As many as can fit =P

Board: Messy - with a clear central objective in the middle (Skyshield Landing Pad)

When do you guys want this to be run - it can be set up this weekend if necessary!

J.

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  Daemons 1750
Posted by: 8thwarrior - 05-21-2011, 10:32 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (11)

I have been kicking around a Daemon list that is 100% Constructed and 90% painted

[HQ]
Herald of Tzeentch() Chariot() Gaze() Bolt() Master of Sorcery() We Are Legion() [110pts]
Herald of Tzeentch() Chariot() Gaze() Bolt() Master of Sorcery() We Are Legion( [110pts]
Herald of Khorne() Juggernaut() Fury of Khorne() Unholy Might() Blessings of the Blood God() [135]
Herald of Khorne() Juggernaut() Fury of Khorne() Unholy Might() Icon() [155]

[ELITES]
6 Fiends Unholy Might() [190pts]
6 Fiends [180pts]
4 Bloodcrushers() Fury of Khorne() Icon() Blessings() [200pts]

[TROOPS]
5 Plaguebearers [75pts]
5 Plaguebearers [75pts]
5 Plaguebearers() Icon() [100pts]

[FAST]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch [48]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch [48]

[HEAVY SUPPORT]
1 Soul Grinder() , Phlegm() [160pts]
1 Soul Grinder() , Phlegm() [160pts]


[1746]

I am looking for lots of advice on how to tweak or improve this list.
No named characters (ETC rules)!
I don't want to use Greater Daemons due to the prevalence of poison with Nids and DE now (Thunderwolf experience Wink).
Many would disagree with the 2x 3 Screamer units but they are there for more than 1 reason Big Grin

So (a) does anyone up in LGC play Daemons and (b) does anyone have any comments?

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  GW Resin and the prices!?!?
Posted by: Duce - 05-17-2011, 11:32 AM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (77)

Holy feck look at the prices of some of these now their re-released. £36 for a hive tyranid!! also CCalgar and honour guard £36!? sternguard 25.50 for 5 models??!?



''Starting from the 28th of May 120 products that were Games Workshop direct only items will be coming back on the shelves as resin or resin Hybrids. This new range “Citadel Fine Cast” range will be limited in number for the first few months, so we will be taking advance orders for them.
Here are the new recast products at the full RRP;
41-60 Commander Dante £10.50
53-60 Logan Grimnar £14.50
55-61 The Emperors Champion £9.50
48-63 Space Marine Chaplain With Jump Pack £10.50
44-60 Dark Angels Company Master £10.50
48-61 Sm Librarian In Terminator Armour £14.50
53-61 Njal Stormcaller £14.50
41-61 Astorath The Grim £12.50
43-60 Abaddon The Despoiler £14.50
43-61 Huron Blackheart £10.50
50-61 Ork Warboss With Attack Squig £14.50
50-63 Ork Big Mek £14.50
50-65 Ork Painboy With Grot Orderly £10.50


46-61 Eldar Autarch With Power Weapon £10.50
46-62 The Avatar Of Khaine £22.50
46-63 Harlequin Death Jester £10.50
46-64 Harlequin Shadowseer £10.50
47-61 Commissar Yarrick £10.50
47-63 Imperial Guard Lord Commissar £9.50
51-61 Tyranid Zoanthrope £15.50
51-63 Tyranid Tyrant Guard £15.50
51-64 Tyranid Hive Guard £15.50
51-65 Tyranid Broodlord £15.50
57-61 Brother Captain Stern £14.50
57-60 Lord Kaldor Draigo £14.50
57-62 Castellan Crowe £10.50
57-63 Inquisitor Coteaz £10.50
45-60 Dark Eldar Archon £9.50
45-64 Lelith Hesperax £10.50
45-63 Urien Rakarth £10.50
45-61 Dark Eldar Succubus £9.50
56-60 Tau Ethereal With Honour Blade £9.50
83-62 Chaos Exalted Hero £9.50
83-63 Chaos Khorne Exalted Hero £10.50
86-60 Empire Captain With Hammer & Pistol £9.50
92-60 Wood Elf Highborn With Great Weapon £9.50
84-60 Dwarf Lord With Hammer & Shield £9.50
84-61 Dwarf Runelord With Great Weapon £9.50
90-60 Skaven Warlord £9.50
90-61 Queek Headtaker £10.50
90-62 Deathmaster Snikch £10.50
91-61 Vampire Lord £9.50
89-60 Grimgor Ironhide £10.50
89-62 Black Orc Big Boss £10.50
87-60 Caradryan £10.50
85-61 Dark Elf Assassin With Two Hand Weapons £9.50
81-60 Malagor The Dark Omen £12.50
10-61 Uruk-Hai With Crossbows £14.00
10-62 Uruk-Hai Berserkers £14.00
08-61 Gothmog (Pelennor) £20.50
05-60 Elrond And Gil-Galad £15.00
10-60 Saruman And Grima £15.00
02-60 Gandalf The White £20.50
04-60 Aragorn (The Black Gate) £20.50
04-62 Theoden (Helm’s Deep) £20.50
04-61 Boromir (Ithilien) £20.50
09-60 Suladan The Serpent Lord £20.50
08-62 The Dark Marshal (Ringwraith) £20.50
05-61 Dain And Balin £15.00
97-60 Skulltaker £14.50
48-40 Marneus Calgar And Honour Guard £36.00
48-41 Space Marine Techmarine With Servitors £25.50
55-40 Black Templars Sword Brethren Squad £25.50
48-42 Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad £25.50
48-43 Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squad £25.50
53-40 Canis Wolfborn £30.00
43-40 Nurgle Daemon Prince £21.50
43-41 Chaos Space Marine Raptors £25.50
43-42 Death Guard Plague Marines £25.50
50-43 Boss Zagstruk £14.50
50-40 Ghazghkull Thraka £22.50
50-41 Ork Tankbustas £25.50
50-42 Ork Big Mek With Shokk Attack Gun £23.00
46-41 Eldar Rangers £20.50
46-42 Eldar Dark Reapers £23.00
46-44 Eldar Striking Scorpions £23.00
46-40 Eldar Farseer And Warlocks £20.50
51-42 Tyranid Lictor £15.50
51-40 Tyranid Hive Tyrant £36.00
51-41 Tyranid Pyrovore £21.50
45-40 Dark Eldar Incubi £23.00
45-41 Dark Eldar Mandrakes £20.50
56-40 Tau Sniper Drone Team £23.00
83-42 Archaon The Everchosen £30.00
83-43 Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount £22.50
83-41 Chaos Dragon Ogre Shaggoth £36.00
86-41 Ludwig Schwarzhelm £22.50
86-40 Kurt Helborg £22.50
82-41 The Green Knight £22.50
82-40 King Louen Leoncoeur £30.00
92-42 Wood Elves Tree Kin £30.00
92-40 Orion King In The Woods £22.50
92-41 Wood Elves Treeman £36.00
84-40 Thorek Ironbrow £36.00
84-41 Dwarf Gyrocopter £23.00
84-42 Dwarf Bolt Thrower £23.00
90-40 Skaven Warplock Jezzails £30.00
91-40 Vampire Counts Varghulf £21.50
91-42 Count Mannfred £22.50
91-41 Vampire Counts Blood Knights £61.50
88-41 Kroq Gar £40.00
89-44 Goblin Spear Chukka £18.50
89-43 Savage Orc Great Shaman On War Boar £15.50
89-41 Orc Warboss On Wyvern £40.00
89-42 Goblin Rock Lobber £23.00
89-45 Gorbad Ironclaw £30.00
89-40 Azhag The Slaughterer £55.00
85-41 Dark Elves Reaper Bolt Thrower £18.50
08-40 The Dark Lord Sauron £25.50
08-42 Gulahvar The Terror Of Arnor £30.00
08-43 Mordor Troll Chieftain £25.50
02-40 The Fellowship Of The Ring £37.00
97-42 Flamers Of Tzeentch £15.50

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  grey knights v defilers
Posted by: wolfie - 05-16-2011, 09:47 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (14)

ok i asked this when codex first came out and nobody could answer. I need a yes or no if defiler is counted as daemon for these grey knight scummy marines? is vehicle i give daemonic possession gonna be affected?

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  Forget forgworld, Imperial hydras and new look chimeras for cheap.
Posted by: Duce - 05-11-2011, 12:56 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (4)

http://www.mycnc.org/ratgard/index.php/category/store/

Found this link on one fo the blogs, the new look chimeras looka wesome and the 'Hydras' are also dirt cheap compared to forgeworld's stuff. $48 compared to the hydra's £42 odd if you get from forgeworld (some on ebay cheaper than the origional price every so often as another alt)

I'd be tempted for some fo the chimea bits.

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  Need help choosing my Dark Eldar units
Posted by: - 05-10-2011, 01:44 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (18)

Hey guy's I am a beginner trying to decide which units to chose. Wolfie has told me I need one HQ and two troops, but I am unsure which I should choose. If you guy's could give me advice it would be much appreciated.

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  Tyranid tactica
Posted by: Gung ho - 05-07-2011, 02:06 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (1)

coming soon

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  Tactica Eldar: How to kill, maim and destroy, without getting blood on your new shirt
Posted by: - 05-06-2011, 10:15 PM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - No Replies

This is a place holder more posts will be added with time, like layers of an onion, except leaving you with minty fresh breath Smile Hopefully you all find some use in them Smile

So, you are treading the path of the warrior? Trying to gather information on enemies? I have been an Eldar player for a while now and will try to gve you as much useful information as I can. First off I will look at the different build types for the army as a whole and the tactics employed, then focus on individual units that make up the warhost. Please bear in mind that these are only my views, I do not claim to know all, so look at other write ups too, judge for yourself. But, most importantly of all, get out there and try out what myself and others say, make a decision for yourself and feed it back here, with your help we can grow the collective knowledge and improve our army together Smile Just remember, win, lose or draw, eldar do looking cooler than any other army

First thing I should say: My views on 40K are that the problem with codex creep has gotten out of hand, 5th edition codex armies will have an upperhand the majority of the time. These posts are aimed at improving the quality of the eldar list so it can attempt to compete against the likes of guard, space puppies and blood angels, however the meta game shift doesn't favour our agile brethren. The best weapons are S7 with many shots, we are one of the few armies (necron is the other) that don't have any S7 weapons, it makes me a sad panda, but suck it up and hope the meta changes in 6th ed Wink Yes I'm jaded, but I hold hope that as an army we can still compete on a minor level, just take pride that whenever you beat an opponent using the aforementioned lists, you know you truly are a better general (or jammy bugger)

How do we win games in this situation? Scenarios, always remember the victory conditions, our speed can hold us in there, hide and pounce in the end game. We can't weather a storm like marines, soak it up with endless tides like guard, we have to see where the storm is and avoid it like the plague. That comes down to experience, I cannot tell you how to spot what is coming, you learn that with table time , so get playing...

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  Codex marines, A look at the units from my view.
Posted by: Duce - 05-05-2011, 10:45 AM - Forum: Warhammer 40k - Replies (21)

~SPELLING AND SUCH WILL BE FIXED ONCE COMPLETED AND AT INTERVALS WHEN INFO IS PUT UP SO BARE WITH ME PELASE~

This post and the two to 3 below it will be updated as I get the time; basically to start off with I’m going to talk about codex marines, their units and the play styles which can be used with the army.

I figure this is a good army to begin with since most of the club seems to have marines of some sort. After the codex boys are done I’ll do Guard, Blood angels, space wolves (Will leave DA and BT alone as their older codex's and less played unless requested).


CODEX MARINES

HQ:
Librarian,
Gone are the librarians of old who could fight IMO, the codex ones are now more support characters with some combat bite. Sadly though the codex ones get less useful powers than the blood angels or space wolves, but some still have their uses.

I’ve found Null zone while effective not used a lot unless you’re fighting Daemons or units with inv saves, and even then it’s hard to get him close to use it and kill the unit. Works well if he’s with some TH/SS termies and you pile into another death star unit.

Gate is another useful power for attempted contesting or general movement of termies without spending points on land raiders, but again has risks.

Avenger is another handy power to roast T4 or lower models without giving them armour saves, very handy for roasting a squad before charging the remains, as long as you are close enough after or the charge remember.

Bar the machine curse power which is average, smite which is again aeage (S4 hits vs most things will still need a 4 to wound unless T3 or lower and vortex of doom which only works efficiently if you take termie armour (And if you do that a Storm shield is almost essential to give saves vs. POTW). The others are far too situational to be used in an all comers list.

The 50point upgrade for 2 powers though is expensive, and not as useful as other point sinks The only use for it I could see would be casting a power then charging in to combat and making your attacks instant death.

For equipment it’s usually just best to run him as a bare bones character unless you really want VOD as a power.


Captain,
Ah the faithful, and my favourite marine HQ character. the powerhouse CC monster of marine codex's outside of SC's. I've found he never fails with the old traditional Stormshield and relic blade combo, usually hitting on 3's or 4's and then wounding on 2's instant deathing anything T3, and with 3 attacks or 4 on the charge he'll take down a few enemies, or even put a few wounds on some big creatures while having a 3++ save to any ignore armour attacks while striking at Ini 5! This can help get some wounds in on enemy super units that have low I high str attacks.

The above is what I consider the bare requirements for a good captain, although some extras if you have left over points are arti armour to make him a 2+ 3++ termie who can actually sweeping advance if not with a termie squad. Digi weapons make him even nice for 10 points and a better to wound chance, or the aux grenade launcher for a nice S6 shot before charging or a S3 blast, although remember these are luxury items, you don't need them.

Another option is dual lightning claws for 5 attacks usually wounding on 3's vs normal guys or 4's for most other enemies at a decent Ini stage, hopefully thinning them down for your Ini 4 guys to scrap with and hopefully overpower.

I've heard of some people using plasma pistols, power fists etc, and while it’s their own preference, it does add more risk to a solid CC base... you don't have much ini 5 or higher, so not using it hurts in the long term, you can easily use termies with powerfists for the S8 hits, or other units for the plasma shots. The captain’s role is one of high Ini killings to thin ranks for your lower ini guys to take advantage of and also to stop some attacks back on you.

He also works well on a bike with the relic blade combo due to the increased T and a part of a biker command squad. Jump packs imo less so as assault marines won’t give the backup punch he needs to succeed in combats.


Chapter Master,
See the captain entry, but less point efficient. Sadly the Chapter master gives no real bang for his extra cost bar the ability to take honour guard and the orb bombardment which he has to sit still to do... and in a marine army you don’t really want your HQ sitting doing nothing but firing an inaccurate blast especially at that cost. Only really useful in themed army battles.


Chaplain,
A suport character who's best use if with a CC orientated unit. Slapping on a jump pack and putting him with assault marines does incrase their damage, but personally I consider it a still subpar role for the chaplain due to the attacks only being non power weapons. The other is either keeping him stock or giving him termie armour and thrownig him in a Land raider with some assault termies. Limited in deployment options and with the I4 he could be picked off before being useful in combats. Still, having fearless on a rearfield scoring unit coudl be useful and the cheap CC support of the Chaplain shouldn't be totally snubbed.


Master of the forge,
A weak character who allows dreadnoughts to be take n as both heavies and elites.. the only Items i'd consider are a bike and Conversion beamer. This allows him to move deu to the bikes relentless to put more room between him and his target for a stronger shot. and also adds 1T making him slightly tougher incase of counter fire. The real use fo him is cheapness and opening the dreads, which to be fair 6 rifleman dreads could be a solid gunline basis or even 4 riflemen and 2 ironclads for keep away duty.


Honour Guard,
Sadly over priced, no real stat increases and no INV saves. Limited wepon loadouts makes them not worth it for wound allocation especially at their increased prices if wargear purchased. Sadly unless you spend tons of points on relic blades and give them a land raider, termies can do this role better. also buggers to paint due to so many details, but the models look nice.


Command Squad,
Most things they can do, TH/SS termies can do better... what they can do though is one of two things, firstly bringing a hard hitting unit to biker armies (At a cost! To make a decent enough CC biker command squad you need about 300 points imo) or as a plasma platform with the ability to drive 12 and open fire and even assault after if you wish (Bikes are relentless remember) although I have seen some players run with 4 flamers and 4 melta guns, it’s the same cost as 4 plasmas but you get anti infantry and anti tank for cheap on a T5 base with FNP.

The other option is lots of specialised power type weapons at I4 while having FNP. My favoured approach when running them as a biker command squad was firstly to take the company champion... 15 points for 1 more WS, a power weapon and a 6+ inv save? It’s worth it as he can be your first wound allocation for an ID weapon. Next I had 3 vets, each with a storm shield to improve survival s high ID weapons, 1 with melta bombs for some wound allocation fun and for anti vehicle and finally each with a lightning claw.

This makes for a nice amount of power weapons rushing in to combat with 9 attacks rerolling wounds, 3-4 attacks at power weapon level and the 4 odd for the apothecary. It’s likely to put a dent in most enemies, depending on how the captain is loaded out. The best bit is they all still have twin linked bolters, so you can rapid fire 12 shots into a squad before assaulting the remains.



ELITE:
Venerable Dreadnought,
The expensive dreadnought, a better BS and also Venerable rule makes them more likely to perform in the game, but for the price you pay to get the reroll the damage table dice you could have upgrades in other parts of your army. The BS 5 does make plasma cannons more appealing, but again most of the dreadnought guns have more than 1 shot normally so the BS 5 is almost not needed.

They seem to do well dropping down in drop pods with a multimelta and using their increased BS sucessifully meltaing a tank and if placed correctly with their pod in the way to the majority of th eenemy force takign a lot fo fire (Between the coversave and their venerable rul they can hopefully live the turn, or atleast soak alot of firepower. If you are doing this then extra armour can eb worthwhile so as to make sure it can continue to move if needed and pop smoke or even assault if given the chance.


Terminator Squad,
The shootie versino of termies suffers slightly ni my opinion in 5th, while they can hide in cover for a 4+ cover and stormbolter out 24 inches you still waste some of their potential. the 2+ save is still there and is as good as you get, but the 5+ inv save really lets them down... power weapons and MC's will chew through them so their CC potential is limited in what you can use them on. This is furthe pointed out by the act their I1 with powerfists which suggests they should be hitting big enemies, but without the save to go with the hits they drop quickly.

Heavy flamers while a good weapon are not imo a good choice for the unit, and while assault cannons add some nice anti tank it really is for mowing down enemies with rends and highe str shots on hordes. I rate the cyclone missile launcher the best though as it adds some good ranged anti tank to the unit but lets the termie keep tis storm bolter for anti infantry. and seeing how the launcher is 2 S8 shots there is a good chance they can wreck lighter vehicles (up to Av12) effectively, and can even glance the higher AV's sometimes.

Remember too the unit is relentless and can do the old move, shoot (so add 6 inches to the weapon ranges) and then assault with their powerfists. this can usually wreck a tank and if its a transport tie up the hopefully weak unit inside (say a guard squad for example), or even destroy a Kan squad or dreadnought.


Terminator assault squad,
Another Staple in marine armies who want a counter-attack or hammer unit, Termie assault squads can chew through a variety of enemy units and should be built with targets in mind. Some people like to run 2 Lightning claw 3 TH/SS which gives a mix of anti horde and anti tanks, but I'm more of the mind that the marine codex can handle hordes with other units... the termies are your anti big things unit. And with 5 TH/SS's they will wreck whatever they hit.

Units of all lightning claw termies can work, but you need to sink a chaplain in with them for reroll hits and their LC reroll wounds to make it fully worthwhile... it’s an option, but why do you need normal S4 power weapon attacks when you can use shooting to thin hordes more effectively. And the targets you'd be sending them vs. (Other Tact squads, grey hunters, fire warriors or battle suits etc would be their preferred enemies due to poor inv save and average Ini) aren't worth the termies as they can be dealt with by other means. Bolters or other guns should be taking down these threats, not your elite infantry. The 5++ save also lets them down as it’s not reliable in combats vs power weapons.

I've found the only real way to run them is by Land raider, rolling up the board to hit a hard unit or a few tanks with multi charge, or sitting back as a deterrent. Deep striking can have too many if or buts and you're at the hands of your scatter dice as well as the reserves roll. The other option is taking a librarian with gate and porting them forward but again there is a risk if doubles are rolled.

Both deep striking and GOF can be safe if you use scouts with locator beacons, but then again you’re relying on a soft unit to be in place for when you need it, this can't be relied on in my experiences and shouldn't be the theme an army is built around.


Techmarine,
An odd unit in the codex, the onyl real uses i've found is taking him to bolster defences, but you rely on getting a ruin in your deployment zone for this. The other use is for some more power weapon attacks, but hes basically a free killpoint.

While he can repair vehicles or take servitors, there is no room for him in a non themed space marine army (Though he could be cool addition to a MOTF themed army with loads of dreads.


Sternguard,
Ah sternguard, I do enjoy this unit and its fluff alot, but on the tabletop their a little less impressive. for extra points you get a normal marine with 1 extra attack and LD but they die just as quick.. the perk... their special issue ammo which if used can be lethal to the target.

I'd honestly say to not eve rswap out the bolters for other weapons bar in 2 occasions. he best way to spice up the squad is some combi meltas to give them anti tank, usually I give combi meltas to 20% of the squad based on its size with a min of 3 combi meltas in a 5 man squad.

My reasoning for this is they have special ammo which is a poor mans plasma, they have mass shots through their bolter fire to cover anti horde so combi plasmas and flamers seem like spending more points on things they can do already.

the firs tsetup I enjoy is a 10 man squd with lysander if you wish in a drop pod, combat squad when it lands and then two ways to do this. Eithe rhalf have combi meltas and the other half has combi flamers ro nothing meaning you pop a transoprt then rapid fire or flame down its occupants. Or give both sets combi meltas and pop two tanks. Having lysander means the bolter rounds are better, and also the half squad now has a CC monster hidden in it.

Another trick is taking a 5 man squad and taking 2 lascannons and sitting them in a rhino. now you have a cheap anti tank unit which is protected in a rhino hull and makes the enemy have to decide is it worth shooting to stop the 2 S9 shots or focus on bigger threats.

The third setup is a squad of 10, some combi meltas, sgt with one of those combis and a PF, and two heavy flamers. Now the reasoninf for this squad is a deadly driveby shooting (Make sure to use the rhino as cover if you can form enemy shooting form other units) by either hopping out and boltering and flaming a big enemy squad to death, or firing some combi meltas at an enemy tank. Combined with the 2 attacks base and Sgt's PF the squad can hold its own in combat if it was able to charge in after the shooting.

Remember though tha tthe special issue ammo only works in bolters, not bolt pistols or stormbolters. so those upgrades should be considered useless or even downgrades.

I've tried armies with 2 squads of them (1 nine man squad, 1 ten man squad, both with 3 combi meltas in rhinos. The nine man squad had a captain attached with bolter with hellfire rounds and a relic blade for a mix of shooting and CC, the sgt's both had PF's) and traveled them together with 3 squads of tactical marines supporting also in rhinos. it makes for a good sized marine force bodies wise and also they add some anti tank, anti 3+ armour save and anti horde power to the fight.

Again treat them like specalist marines but not heroes and you'll get good milage from them. and remember the 30inch range ammo you can use afte rdisembarking them into ruins to make a fire base from.


Legion of the dammed,
Sadly this squad is overcosted and not efficient for play outside of a themed battle, the relentless helps a little but they are just marines with a 3+ inv which when bolter fired at will fail just as often as normal marine saves... Sternguard can do what these guys do for cheaper and with more options.


Ironclad dreadnought,
The Av13 monster dreadought, with +1A for having two DCCW's (Dreadnought close combat weapons) the iron clad can make a mess of units or tanks alike if it gets its hits in. The AV13 front makes powerfists etc less useful as they now need a 5 to glance.

I've found upgrading the stormbolter to flamer works well and keeping the meltagun for anti tank. Whilst if you have points free sticking on a couple of hunterkillers makes it not only even better for long ranged anti tank (Side armour shots with the hunterkillers if someone forgets the ironclad has them is a treat) but also means it takes more weapon destroyed resuls before it is useless.

hey work well as tarpit ro counterttack units. Or even in drop pods landed on the flanks of enemy formations wher ethey can pop a tank and hide behind the pod form most of the enemy fire. Though melta will still eat them alive so plan your drop well.


Dreadnought,
The normal Dreadnought, and in my opinion the best, it comes chap with a multimelta which si perfect for walking forward to slg tanks with or dropping out of a pod.

The other weapons are more to taste, plasma cannons don't get hot on them so this is a good plce to get some plasma if you want it for your army. Lascannons are solid enough but still expensive, missile launchers add some extra firepower instead of DCCW attacks.

The best option though imo is the twinlinked autocannon. twice... for 125 points you have a relentless AV12 walker who can move 6 inches (To get side armour shots if needed or just to advance into cover) fire 4 rerollable Str 7 shots which can wound MC's on 3's or instant death anything T3 on 2's while still wounding T4, 5 on 2+ rolls makes it a solid all round performer.

Even Vs light armour the dreads will find a use, Vs Av10 consider it likely to die, Vs av 11 you're glancing on 4 and pen 5+, against Av 12 fronts you're glancing on 5 and penning on 6's... so still 1/3 chance to do something, and with most of the shots hitting due to rerollable BS4 you should get 3-4 hits, meaning a glance or pen or two.

Then remember their relentless, so they can assault into the enemy unit if close enough they shot at to tie them up if their a melta unit or shooty type.

I've had great sucess form these guys, and having 3 in m ary just makes them shine even brighter as they work to gether to thin out hordes (Ap4 gun remember so most Xenos won't get a save).



TROOPS:
Scouts,
The marines n training. Due to their nerf on the BS and WS stat they've dropped a notch in my book, but still can find their uses in lists. One such choice is a squad with sniper rifles an camo cloaks sitting on a home objective offering cheap fire support as well as cheap scoring troop unit.

The next is as a surprise asault squad. Yes I kid you not this can work. 10 scouts, sgt with PF and combi melta, 5 scouts with BP/CCW and 4 scouts with shotguns. This works well dropping out of a land raider with maybe a chaplain or if possible khan attached.

With the furious chrge of Khan the scouts are now hitting S5 T5 just like marines would, or if yu have the chaplain hitting rerollable I4... or if you get both have the combined benefits above, but are now a bit more expensive. The idea is you drop them out of the land raider as close as you can (So aim to be 1 inch from the direction you want to attack, remembering if possible to get your unit so almost all yours can attack and some fo the enemy if possible through pile in moves can't, though this will only work if the enemy is spread out in a line. open fire with the 5 shotguns (8shots) and BP's (5 shots) plus if you want the Sgt's melta or BP, (and whatever weapon your HQ has) then charge in.

Even without an Hq atached the unti will do well vs most non deathstar units surprising alot of people to how well scouts can possibly do in CC. Best use i've found it hitting an opposing troops choice or support unit like long fangs, dev squads etc and ruining them. The enemy now has to either open fire on your scouts and deal with them (which they likely will if you eat up one of their squads) meaning the rest of your force can dodge shots otherwise aimed at them and pile in some hurt. And rememebr with camo cloaks the unit if in cover will get a 3+ save, and if you don't have an HQ that alters combat tactics, you can go to ground lose a few men, choose to flee, and auto rally in your next go and move where you want and repeat.

The next type is a 5 man squad with camo cloaks, bolters and heavy bolter. infiltrate them on a flank in a building and use them as a midfield support unit to add some fire while your marines in rhinos move up.

I've never bothered with locatorbeacons with normal scouts due to possibly dying quickly, but if you get them into a LOS blocking piece of terrain you can sue them as a cal down point for pods or even deepstrikers or as a forward port location for a librarian and some thunder hammer termies. This cheapens the cost to get them across the table and also lets the scouts help in hand to hand on easier targets, meaning they can sweeping advance the ruined unit hopefully after the termies mess them up.

i've tended never to put a ML into the scout squads, while 1 Bs 3 missile maymake the difference in a game every so often you're effectively wasting 9 shots from the others. Thus its best to give them a heavy bolter and Snipers if you want to take down MC's or bolters for hordes.


Tactical marines,
The backbone of marine armies, while other marine armies get better specalised troops these guys are still worth a look. The ability to take multi taking combos can be alluring such as Missile launcher and flamer but this makes the squad too multipurpose. I've found it’s sometimes easier to give them a duty and have them stick with it.

For example the tank hunters, multimelta, melta and combi melta on sgt with powerfist or meltabombs. This units role is to take the midfield and support other units, or to sit back and act as a bunker between enemy vehicles and your objective. It works well with a Flamer, ML squad if they focus on the anti infantry and only use the ML for good side armour shots or as a backup single shot if no infantry present themselves.

While some people like to spec up the tactical squads with plasma guns/cannons, lascannons etc I’ve found them just too much of a liability or points sink. You can get anti tank elsewhere for cheaper in the codex; your tacticals are the solid anti infantry marine armies need.

For Sgts, its either one of 3 builds for me, the PF, combi weapon combo, The combi bolter, BP combo, or the untouched base bolter/bp. the tooled out one is good for the extra anti tank shot, the threat of instant deathing your enemy IC's or putting wounds on big gibblies. the combi guy is cheap, looses nothing but adds a single shot of whatever is needed (I'm mostly a combi melta guy, but having a flamer in the squad means taking a combi flamer and a ML makes a nice anti infantry squad). Finally the base Sgt is taken with the bolter as I find Tacticals do better boltering things than charging, and with a 3+ to always hit and anything from 3-4+ on normal enemies up to 5-6+ for the tougher enemies, you'll have better luck than 1 extra normal attack which needs 4's to usually hit and 4+ usually to wound unless you're fighting guard. DE, Eldar and the likes have higher Ini which means that single extra attack is even les useful than an extra bolter shell at 12 inches.

Support your tactical sand you'll find they prove to be workhorses for the army, don't expect them to be heroes and you'll get better results.



DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Rhino,
The faithful horse for the marines. Its cheap, dependable, has 3 access points, 2 fire points, a storm bolter standard and all for 35points. They are very effective for moving troops, providing bunker fire or even for blocking enemy movement. My motto si keep them cheap. so they may get a dozer blade, but I’m not a fan of giving them anything more especially when their so cheap to begin with and purely for a protected get there and forget role.

Consider them in your army as roadblocks if needed. You should never feel bad about driving them forward right in front of units (usually 2 rhinos do this perfectly if free) and turn sideways and pop smoke. This means the enemy will have to spend movement going around the rhino allowing you another turn of firing. and if you use two rhinos feel free to make an arrowhead with a under inch gap between them... this means the squads in the arrowhead can fire through the gap but the enemy cannot assault through meaning an extra turn of firing, and if you moved the rhinos 12 inches and popped smoke they should live for you to tank shock the enemy unit (If there is no threat to the rhinos)into a nice flamer or blast marker formation. Or even to re-embark and flee the scene.

Some people I know like to add a Hunter-Killer purely for the surprise chance shot at side armour, and also to give it another weapon destroyed option before taking imob results... but thats 10 points which could be used on dozer blades or combis. So think carefully before you bling up the rhino... it’s still a cheap date underneath all the extras and dies just as easily.


Drop pod,
Not much can be said abotu the drop pod, its effectively a 1 trick pony... or is it. The most common use people have si dropping a dreadnought or sternguard squad (Or something similiar) with meltas inside combat squadding on arrival and blowing up two tanks, or hopefully 1 with the dreadnought then relying on that unit soaking loads of fire next turn so the rest of your army can exploit the damage done to the enemy.

But I've also enjoyed using them as blockers and terrain makers for some of my armies. looking at your enemy's fire lanes, if you go first then drop them down to create some cover for advancing forces around the mid table, or if you need to, use them to land on objectives to keep the enemy from claiming them unless they waste firepower removing the pods.

Another somewhat reliable method si dropping the empty pods (Assuming you bought them for riflemen dreadnoughts who won't need them) is to pod in a land raider by dropping them around it to block its movement, hopefully making it unable ot move or have to drive through terrain and it breakign itself. Although thes epods can add up, but if you're playing a podding force it might be worth it to use a few for early game blocking while you take a part some of the enemy's movement.


Razorback,
The cheap gunboat of the codex marines army, loading these up with either twinlinked lascannons or lascannons/twinlinked plasma guns gets you more bang in the army for a cheap buck, but with AV11 they will die to most S7 plus weapons. The reason I prefer these weapon loadouts are firstly the lascannons are welcome aditions for shooting vehicles up or instant deathing annoying models. The TL-Plas/las adds another weapon system in so 1 weapon destroyed won't stop your destruction and with 3 shots killing most things withinv saves outright tis a nice thinner for marine squads or other similar units.

While assault cannon and heavy bolters might be suggested by some I disliek them in codex marine armies due to the slow speed of the vehicles. In blood angels assault cannons work better due to the fast rule, but in codex marines their low range hurts when you need to stunlock enemy formations.

The heavy flamer mount is a horrible option in codex marines but blood angels can make it work nicely due to fast again.

The sucky point of razorbacks is that you can't fire out of them, but its a trade off to have some of the heaviest weapnos in the game mounted to transport vehicles, and I personally rate them one fo the best transports in the game for points to gun power ratio.


FAST ATTACK:
Vanguard,
Sadly overpriced and compete with terminators for the assault element of codex marine forces. If only they had jump packs included in price and you could remove them for a dedicated transport (Rhino/drop pod and maybe land raider IMO, razorbacks are too sit back mentality and not something I’d see racing forward for vanguards to jump out of) .

While 2 attacks base is nice along with options to kit them out with power weapon or thunder hammers etc, the cost rises and you can find a squad of 5 becoming more costly than 5 TH/SS termies... and also less survivable. Heck even a mixed termie squad can do what these guys can but better, cheaper and with more chance of survival. 3 LC / 2 TH/SS termies can counter both hordes and big guys while having 2+ armour saves and a 3++ for any heavy wounds. Heck even the lightning claws have a 5++ which is a third chance to live.

Again Vets seem to have two roles. Either in a land raider rushing out and multicharging units with masses of power weapon attacks... or jump packing it around with the same sort of loadout, but sadly their deep strike lets them down as it’s not as effective as when the blood angels version comes down only D6.


Marine Bike squad,
The first thing you should always add to a bike squad –always– is an attack bike. Compare it to two standard bikes: it can possibly suffer Instant Death (which is a threat to attack bike squadrons, but not to an attack bike within a bike squad as proper wound allocation will guarantee that the attack bike does not suffer hits from weapons able to inflict Instant Death), and it has one attack less on the charge, while it costs less and has far superior firepower, and can lose a wound without being reduced in effectiveness. Just like independent characters with power fists, single attack bikes or attack bike squadrons are vulnerable, but like a hidden power fist on a sergeant within a squad, an attack bike hidden in a bike squad is so good. It adds much needed additional range to bike squad firepower, anti-infantry with the heavy bolter or anti-tank with the multi-melta.

The thing is what makes bike squads more effective than tactical squads IMO are the upgrade special weapons. A bike squad should always be upgraded with two special weapons, because they enhance your bike squad’s effectiveness by much more than they increase its cost. Those upgrade weapons should be of the same type to maximize on specialization within your already flexible unit, so as to waste as little potential as possible at any task.

This is basically it. Anything on top of that is a bonus, and you should be sparse with those. An additional bike –or maybe two of them– are okay, but certainly not more. Bikes without upgrade weapons are nothing more than meat-shields for your important bikes, and you don’t need too many of those. Taking full bike squads is not a good idea, as those squads are far too big to handle effectively, or –if split into combat squads– too fragile and too ineffective because they lack the upgrade weapon density of five or six model bike squads.

If you have spare points, upgrading biker sergeants may not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, biker sergeants only have a bolt pistol to replace thus can only take a single upgrade weapon. This can either be a power sword or fist, though these are expensive on your bikes that shouldn’t see combat with anything they require power fists against, and often these upgrades just make you tie a combat with heavy losses which you would rather break from with combat tactics. Other possible upgrades include combi-weapons – either one matching the upgrade weapons of the squad or a combi-flamer, which can be a viable choice for any bike squad.

Flamer squads are clearly anti-infantry. Since they will be shooting weak targets, the bolters in there aren’t as useless as in other kinds of bike squads, and since they have to get close-up and personal to use their weapons, they are very likely to see close combat. For these reasons, flamer squads may by trend be a little larger, for example six or seven models, while this is by no means a necessity. The attack bike in flamer squads should keep the heavy bolter to suit the squad’s role best, while the sergeant –if upgraded at all– should receive either combi-flamer or power sword to fit the role of killing soft targets, but maybe even power fist if you insist.

Melta squads are clearly anti-tank (or can double as anti-MC). They will have to get close in order to shoot, but as far as assaults go, these bikes will probably only initiate ones against a vehicle they shot but failed to kill. You may get assaulted in return, but this will likely be a combat you don’t want to be in – unless your opponent plays in your favor. Thus, melta squads have a tendency to become suicide units, and for this reason they should be kept small to minimize the loss. Of course the attack bike’s main gun should be upgraded to a multi-melta, doubling the squad’s anti-tank range and maximizing its effect. Sergeants may be upgraded with either combi-melta, combi-flamer, or a power fist for vehicle killing and self-defense.

Plasma squads are fire support. Plasma weapons are expensive and dangerous, but Relentless plasma guns are very effective and have by far the greatest range among the upgrade weapons bike squads can choose from. They are also very flexible, able to deal with anything but the toughest vehicles: heavy infantry, monstrous creatures, light vehicles are all perfect targets. The attack bike should stick with the heavy bolter for mass output of the fire support squad, though the more expensive multi-melta is fine as well, shifting the squad’s focus by reducing its range and effectiveness against light and medium infantry, while increasing its effectiveness against heavy infantry and vehicles. Sergeants of plasma squads should be the last to get upgraded.


Attack bikes,
Usually a solid choice, especially when suicide-tank hunting with multi-meltas. These are compared to the MM/HF speeders. Both having their own strengths and weaknesses which usually decide for the player which to bring. The attack bikes can hide fully behind rhinos and sneak forward out of sight of enemy guns racing forward 12 to pop a tank before assaulting the passengers if needed. But its flaw is that S3 weapons can harm it, as can S4 with some accuracy compared to the speeders AV10 which means they need 6’s to glance.

In terms of movement, the bikes can fly around the board 24 inches gaining a 3+ coversave, but cannot move over enemy models or terrain for late game contesting, and sadly they cannot turbo boost into or through terrain.

The dangerous terrain tests will also break your heart if you move them into terrain, but atleast tis only 1 wound not model destroyed for the attack bikes unlike the special weapon bikers or PF sgts.


Land speeder,
Another staple of competitive marine lists, i’ve seen a few loadouts and ran quite a few myself. The best being imo the heavy flamer/multimelta loadout, its cheap, can pop tanks and is cheap enough to be a throw away unit which pops a land raider then dies, or burns up some infantry in cover. And with turbo boost they can stay alive for a long time if you roll well.

The next loadout is with the missile launcher for a mobile long range gun platform which can jink around terrain and fire both the launcher and heavy bolter (or put on flamer in case enemies close in) and pop tanks. These excel as they are far back so the enemy either wastes anti tank guns on them or has to ignore them meaning more free missile shots.

The other combo I like is a squad of 3 (But this one is very limited in what it can do and which armies you can use it against) with two heavy bolters each... that’s a lovely 18 S5 BS4 shots from the squad... and if you take 3 full squads that’s 54 shots... very anti horde which i’ve found works well vs nid hordes.

Land speders are great late game contesters or fire and forget units if the situation calls for it. Never be afraid to fly them up and park right infront of land raiders to stop them moving forward in their movement phase. I’ve done it and if it works (They don’t ram you with that S5 hit, pen and explode you assuming a land raider) you’ve made that 70 point investment back with interest.


Land speeder storm,
Sadly not worth much in my eyes bar tricks like scouting forward dropping off a scout squad with some melta bombs etc and assaulting a tank for auto hits. The BS3 ruins the melta a lot and being open topped and AV 10 you can expect fireballs when shot at even by boltguns... And their special rules aren't that useful as if you're going to be using the locatorbeacon you know the enemy will focus fire them off the table.

For comp lists leave hem but for fun themed lists take them for quick moving troop carriers.


Scout bikers,
Handy lil units of 3 can infiltrate and taking first turn to scout move just outside 12inches of the enemy race in and pop tanks with a combi melta, some meltabombs and if wanted 2 grenade launchers. It’s a cheap one trick pony unit (Or is it?) which can ruin a couple of transport early i the game, then assault and hopefully tie up the troops inside making them waste turns not moving for objectives.

The threat of outflanking them also helps as you can make squads of 5 with a Pf sgt, 2 greenade launchers appear next to enemy formations and wreck their movement, or have them turbo boost on deep in your enemies backfield taking objectives he thought were secure.

The reason I’m not calling them one trick is that youc an also deploy them and turboboost in the scout move to get your army a cover save by spacing them otu 2inches and assuming a squad of 3, you can cover 10inches across making the units behind get cover while the bikers themselves still get a 3+ cover save.

Sadly they lack staying power and with the scouts lower WS and BS (Slightly covered by the TL bolters on the bikes) they can’t be relied upon to do much damage unless it’s on unmoved tanks.


Assault squad,
Sadly the boys lack the dedicated combat punch to take on proper CC units. Instead I’ve found them more suited to bullying non CC units like tactical squad or tau fire warriors or suits.

I’ve always run them as anti horde with 2 flamers and a sgt with Powerfist, but I have seen some units run with 2 plasma pistols and sgt with plasma pistol for some anti marine firepower before assaulting, but the worry of losing marines before combat to overheats makes me not as likely to run this combo.

They can also work well alongside a hammer unit if you multi charge 2-3 units, do loads of wounds with the hammer unit then have the assault marines sweeping advance the fleeing squads.

Their sadly take 10 or go home and deep striking is well out of the question for me, if they had Meltaguns maybe, but without and 2D6 scatter no thank you. I’ll save my fast attack slots for other better units.



HEAVY SUPORT:
Whirlwind,
The Marine's artillery sadly lacks punch, and while the whirlwind has cover ignoring missiles which can runi some xenos outright with no armour save due to AP5 its not got the hitting power I want. The S5 is foun lacking unless its hitting T3 hordes, and ni a mech heavy edition you won't find those unless their orks or nids, and even then taknig whirlwinds to cover just that if playing in a tourney si asking for disappointment... They compete with the other more useful all rounder heavy support choices, and are found very wanting...

Still worth fielding in themed games or if fighting a one off game vs nids, but not a top unit contender for the heavy support by a long shot.


Vindicator,
The seige breaker... which is actually not as deadly as you'd think. with 24 inch range S10 AP2 you can ruin anything hit by the Vindicator's shots, even vehicles will quiver at the thought of a shell landing on them. But this si also its greatest flaw... the one big gun it carries.

Most armies will open fire on the vnidicator just until it gets a shaken result even... once that gun can't fire its useless for the turn and they can focus on other targets, and god help youif it gets a weapon destroyed result against it.

Though in groups of 2-3 they can work as area denying guards, making the enemy not want to rush forward into their firing zones.

When i've taken these I usually slap on a siege shield, the extra 5 points voer dozer blades are well worth it to allow you to keep driving through terrain to give its AV13 front a coer save and also to keep it in range of any targets.

Still a decent unit, but found lacking by big gun syndrome and opponents who know how tender tis AV 11 sides can be.


Thunderfire,
The much underused artillery cannon of the marines... while the model is god awful to put together their results can actually surprise you. Av10 with a tech marine gunner, the randomised hits sucks as a single lascannnon can kill the gunner and make the gun useless, but if the gun dies the tech marine can join a squad of marines to make his kill point more secure (You have to kill both the gun and tech marine for the KP I believe).

The different firing modes can be very useful, especially the sub round which causes difficult terrain tests which can really screw over an enemy advance of thunder wolves or even bikers or skimmers. Remember this affect the unit even if it doesn’t do wounds I believe.
I’ve seen a few armies run with them, but unless you have a forward moving force to make the enemy shoot them over the cannons they won’t last long, even with the bolster defences which is again limited in use if you have no ruins in deployment zone.

Worth a try, but prepare for a model that I consider one of the worst I ever attempted to build.


Predator,
The Heavy support option of majority choice, the humble predator battle tank to give it the full title, is another workhorse of the armies.

The Dakka pred version as its slang name is known is the autocannon turret with sponson heavy bolters, and for the 85 points it’s a bargain for anti infantry and even anti light tank. I mean seriously, Av13 front, 2 S7, 6 S5 BS4 shots all for 85 points, that can really upset a hordes day if you get a few turns of firing, and imagine 3 of them doing that role. Heck even Vs rhinos you’ll glance it a few times.

The next version is the Autolas pred, which again used the autocannon turret but takes lascannon sponsons making it much more deadly anti tank for the price. I think its 120 points and can pop any vehicle in the game now. Well worth it if you want ranged anti tank in your army.

The final version is the Annihilator, a twin linked Lascannon turret and Lascannon sponsons, supposedly the cream of anti tank on paper, until you see the god auwful price you pay just to get that 3rd Lascannon and make it twin linked... 60 points for the turret Lascannon is horrible and the points can be spent elsewhere. You can get a twin linked Lascannon razorback which if hidden behind the preds will do the just as effectively and also give you a scoring unit as well.

To sum up if you need anti infantry and want something to support your tactical marines in this role get the dakka preds, 3 of them will prove to be useful in an all comers list, and if you want anti tank get 3 autolas preds, they’ll remove a couple of vehicles a turn for you (I include stunned/shaken removing unless sits a land raider or transport vehicle wanting to get close to your lines). Again well worth their points.

A final not though is don’t rely on 1 of them, and if taking 3 keep them the same or you’ll find the more useful type either on its own, or the group of 3 gets singled out and destroyed, with 3 the same you have the backup to keep them alive and kicking.


Land Raider Redeemer,
The shortest range Land raider, it boasts two huge marine killing flamers and with AV14 and if given extra armour will get your guys to the desired target without sweat. You’ll find it draws a lot of fire as enemies fear the damage it can do driving in among their lines, flamering one unit, POTMS flaming another unit, or if you gave it the essential multimelta hopefully slagging a tank while the termies or unit inside pop out and assault another.

Sadly though its greatest strength is its biggest weakness... short range weapons means it has to close to do anything unless it just used as cover, thus its one effective role is to get forward and burn stuff unlike its god hammer brother who can sit back if needed and fire lascannons waiting as a counter attack unit.

If taking one, then why not take 2 works well barrelling two flame happy land raiders into enemies not in vehicles and unloading some thunder hammer termies , and if game rules allow it Khan with some lightning claw termies in the other one getting furious charge, a lot of things are going to die to that, but it’s a costly hammer element for your army.


Land Raider Crusader,
The king of the land raiders, its increased capacity allows bigger death star units to hitch a ride and the fact that its bolters are S4 means you can move and fire all weapons using POTMS and defensive weapons rule. Its almost essential purchases to add on extra armour and multi melta increasing the effectiveness of the tank 100%, now it can take on enemy armour, and keep moving and shooting as it needs.

The downside is cost though and the fact its weapons aren't hard hitting, but treat it like a transport wiht options and you'll get good service from it...

Land Raider,
Another popular variant of the land raider, but this one has flaws attached to its benefits. while having 2 twin-linked lascannons is a nice thing this means people will eithe rnot move it forward or drive slow which dilutes its effectiveness. Land raiders are assault transoprts, their not meant to be bunkers IMO... 250 points demands you get the best from the unit, and an AV 14 assault boat is where it needs to be.

Don't ge tme wrong, Vs nids or such sit back and counter attack with it, but don't get it into yuor mind that thats its role in general. You can get cheaper lascannons on razorbacks (Infact you can get 2 5 man squads in twin linked las razorbacks for the same cost roughly!).

Another great aspect of the land raider is turning it sideways afte rmoving forward and hiding units behind it such as MM/HF speeders who on the next turn can pop out and cause some damage.

Finally don't ever be afraid of ramming wht the land raider if you've lost a lascannon or 2... its mass and tank rule means right off the bat you'll be getting a S5 hit.

Devastator Squad,
While some people see the Dev squad as a bad investment in this metagame I’d disagree. They can be effective if used as a single 5 man squad with 4 Missile launchers, set up in cover, similar to long fangs but without the 5th heavy weapon and split fire option, they can still see use, abit more expensive and less versatile, but still a worthwhile choice if you don’t want to rely on preds to do your long range shooting. It come down to do you want an AV13 front tank which could stopped shooting or killed within 1 shot, or a 5 man squad which is more susceptible to fire, but can get a cover save and always fire if they live. Both options have merit.

Another option is taking just two lascannons and putting them in a rhino and making it a bunker, like the Sternguard version of this it makes the enemy have to pick if its worth it as a target, but again this can be shaken and left for the turn so placement and army choice comes into play if deciding to take this option.

As for heavy weapon choices I’ve found either all Missile launchers or missile launchers and a Lascannon works, and by giving the Lascannon gunner the sigium to increase his BS by 1 you get a super effective heavy shot.

Sadly Heavy bolters while cool looking and plasma cannons aren’t worth it when you compare points and scatters to the role your devs should be fulfilling. Remember you have tactical marines or the other units mentioned previously in this guide to cover anti horde.

Multimeltas while good are too short range and thus wasted points unless you are prepared to drive them forward 12 and deploy them midfield... but this is a waste of up to two turns shooting.

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